Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: How can we improve appointments?
This is the forum for improving our procedures, so I am going to be a Guinea pig and ask for help. I think we can agree it is best to use an appointment system rather than just wait for people to show up and try to work them in. Here is our system.
1) Appointments come to us in different ways;
a) Pre scheduled; the next appointment is made at the completion of the last time a vehicle is worked on. Most likely this type of appointment will be for further work or routine maintenance. The customer is given an appointment card. Service Advisor puts appointment in appointment book, and makes an appointment in the Shop Management System. The appointment in Shop Management System is actually an invoice that lists what needs done, the times the jobs should take and the parts to be installed. A reminder letter is sent two weeks before the scheduled date. A phone call is made one week before the appointment date to confirm the date and time.
b) An existing customer calls; Service advisor looks at appointment book and offers the customer 2 choices, customer chooses the date and time that best fits them. Service Advisor puts appointment in appointment book, and makes an appointment in the Shop Management System. Again, the appointment in Shop Management System lists what needs done, the time to do the jobs and the parts needed, if known.
c) New customer calls; Service advisor tries to determine what the vehicle needs then looks at appointment book and offers customer 2 choices, customer chooses the best one. Service Advisor gets the customers name, address and as much vehicle information as the customer knows. Service Advisor puts appointment in appointment book, and makes an appointment in the Shop Management System. These can be the toughest because we may not be able to get complete vehicle information and do not know exactly what the vehicle needs.
In general, we try to assign jobs to the tech that is best suited to do them.
Parts that we do not stock are ordered when the appointment is made. We use the customers name as a PO. When the parts come in, we receive them in the SMS, put the customers name on them and put them on a shelf. This way when the vehicle shows up all the parts are ready and waiting.
I know that having an appointment book and putting appointments in the Shop Management System is redundant. The problem is our SMS will only show appointments for one day at a time, the book shows an entire week at a glance.
For the most part our system works ok. Problems occur when we get drop in vehicles or customers that say “ As long as you are already working on it go ahead and do ...”. Another sticky spot can be when additional work is found that needs to be done. Sometimes we missed finding it on the initial evaluation, most of the time it is a new problem that just surfaced.
We are a small shop so the service writer is also the parts person. With this system the SA can only handle 2 techs.
How can we improve what we are doing?
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: Re: How can we improve appointments?
Dave wrote:
For the most part our system works ok. Problems occur when we get drop in vehicles or customers that say “ As long as you are already working on it go ahead and do ...”. Another sticky spot can be when additional work is found that needs to be done. Sometimes we missed finding it on the initial evaluation, most of the time it is a new problem that just surfaced.
Hi Dave,
I'll start off and hope others may add their thoughts. I think all improvement has to start with defining the problem(s) and objective(s). A fishbone diagram can also be a great help. Putting exactly what you have stated in the form of a diagram provides a visual look at the system.
Next, I would show the diagram to the staff, they are closest to the problem. At this stage, write down any ideas that pop up, no matter how far fetched. The point is gathering information for possible PDSA.
From your quote above, I assume this is the most pressing problem. I have had the same issues and made each a lot better by a more involved interview process when making appointments and revising our inspection processes. Rather than start with that, why not create a fishbone of the process and post it here?
I think every business can benefit from improved scheduling and hope we can gain participation on this project. Thanks Dave.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject:
Hi Dave,
The largest category seems to be Non-Scheduled Work, that is where I think I would begin. For each of the reasons there are causes, this is where I like to start.
Here are a few other random thoughts:
A schedule is very much like an inventory. It is an inventory of the time you have to sell. Like an inventory it must be managed. The more precise the schedule, the greater the optimization of time.
All of our staff have access to the schedule, but I try to have one person book most appointments. If Elaine is busy, I or any other staff member can also book an appointment.
Each person updates their own schedule, for instance when they complete a job. This allows making time available or moving things as necessary to keep promise times.
There is one word I hear a lot of shops use and I really don't agree with. "Emergency" Almost every client that has a broken vehicle is an emergency. I do not feel it is good service to delay one person, who has an appointment, for another with an "emergency."
I also think it is foolish to allow time each day for "emergencies." In effect, in a full shop with a backlog, this means delaying service for people who need it [holding time open that could be filled] in case someone else needs the time. Every client is valuable to me and the only fair system I know is to fill all time I can and take those with appointments first.
I don't wish to monopolize this thread so I will shut up here in the hope others will add their thoughts.
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject:
louis wrote:
A schedule is very much like an inventory. It is an inventory of the time you have to sell. Like an inventory it must be managed. The more precise the schedule, the greater the optimization of time.
Very true, but unlike a part in inventory, once that time is gone it cannot be sold. It is lost forever. A part can sit on the shelf until sold.
I think most shops do a poor job of managing the "time" inventory. There is profit to be made by correctly managing and selling "time".
louis wrote:
There is one word I hear a lot of shops use and I really don't agree with. "Emergency" Almost every client that has a broken vehicle is an emergency. I do not feel it is good service to delay one person, who has an appointment, for another with an "emergency."
I also think it is foolish to allow time each day for "emergencies." In effect, in a full shop with a backlog, this means delaying service for people who need it [holding time open that could be filled] in case someone else needs the time. Every client is valuable to me and the only fair system I know is to fill all time I can and take those with appointments first.
There are things that can be done to minimize the number of emergencies that come in. Shops that do a good job of preventative maintenance inspections and repairs will see less emergencies. We need to make recommendations, to the client, of up coming work needed on our clients vehicles.
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 20 May 2007 Posts: 20 Location: South Australia
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject:
Dave wrote:
Thanks for posting the chart, Louis.
Does anybody else have any other things that mess up the appointment system? Feel free to post them and I’ll up date the chart.
How can we fix some of the issues listed?
Hi Dave,
How about the customer that rings the day after their vehicle left the workshop saying "since you worked on the car?".
Often you say to your self that we cannot be responsible for that! But until you get the car back in and check, you cannot be sure.
These vehicles often need to come back ASAP to keep the owner happy and throw a great day into chaos.
Perhaps we should add this to the chart.
_________________ David Vidler
Owner/ Manager - Seaside Automotive
South Australia
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:11 am Post subject:
Dave wrote:
louis wrote:
A schedule is very much like an inventory. It is an inventory of the time you have to sell. Like an inventory it must be managed. The more precise the schedule, the greater the optimization of time.
Very true, but unlike a part in inventory, once that time is gone it cannot be sold. It is lost forever. A part can sit on the shelf until sold.
I think most shops do a poor job of managing the "time" inventory. There is profit to be made by correctly managing and selling "time".
You are precisely correct, time is very perishable. The largest single increase in production I have ever gained can as the result of improved scheduling. Everything is interrelated however. Scheduling depends on workers being in statistical control of their work. This way time can be more easily predicted. It also depends on accuracy and thoroughness of diagnosis, as you suggest. Perhaps most important, it depends on the quality of output. Comebacks will reek havoc on a schedule.
Dave wrote:
louis wrote:
There is one word I hear a lot of shops use and I really don't agree with. "Emergency" Almost every client that has a broken vehicle is an emergency. I do not feel it is good service to delay one person, who has an appointment, for another with an "emergency."
I also think it is foolish to allow time each day for "emergencies." In effect, in a full shop with a backlog, this means delaying service for people who need it [holding time open that could be filled] in case someone else needs the time. Every client is valuable to me and the only fair system I know is to fill all time I can and take those with appointments first.
There are things that can be done to minimize the number of emergencies that come in. Shops that do a good job of preventative maintenance inspections and repairs will see less emergencies. We need to make recommendations, to the client, of up coming work needed on our clients vehicles.
I believe every client's needs are important to them. I do not see it as my place to decide who should get preferential treatment. The person who calls ahead and plans to drop their vehicle should expect me to honor my commitment to provide that service. Putting them off, to hold time open for someone who just drops in is not good service, in my opinion.
This is a great topic, I hope to see it develop fully.
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:54 am Post subject:
Seaside wrote:
Hi Dave,
How about the customer that rings the day after their vehicle left the workshop saying "since you worked on the car?".
Often you say to your self that we cannot be responsible for that! But until you get the car back in and check, you cannot be sure.
These vehicles often need to come back ASAP to keep the owner happy and throw a great day into chaos.
Perhaps we should add this to the chart.
Good idea, one we had not thought of. After I get a few ideas I will up date the chart.
Our tendency is to assume that the problem is not the shops fault. I find it better to assume a neutral position until the vehicle comes back in and is looked at. How can we minimize the chances of 'Everett Sinceyou' causing vehicles to come back?
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject:
louis wrote:
You are precisely correct, time is very perishable. The largest single increase in production I have ever gained can as the result of improved scheduling. Everything is interrelated however. Scheduling depends on workers being in statistical control of their work. This way time can be more easily predicted. It also depends on accuracy and thoroughness of diagnosis, as you suggest. Perhaps most important, it depends on the quality of output. Comebacks will reek havoc on a schedule.
That becomes part of the fun. It is normally not one or two big changes that make the difference, but several small ones.
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:
Dave wrote:
Our tendency is to assume that the problem is not the shops fault. I find it better to assume a neutral position until the vehicle comes back in and is looked at. How can we minimize the chances of 'Everett Sinceyou' causing vehicles to come back?
Hi Dave,
A little off the topic, but here's a crazy twist [not too unusual for me? ] "Ever since you" is a very normal human reaction. The mind is a comparison device and change is what gets its attention. When it see change, it looks to make logic of it (cause and effect.)
Rather than fight this, why not invite it? Over ninety-percent of the time it's a new problem and we get paid to fix it. I try to encourage it. A long no-hassle warranty and several ways for people to reach me, even at night, holidays and weekends. It makes me a lot of money and makes people feel good about our service.
Joined: 20 May 2007 Posts: 20 Location: South Australia
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject:
Dave wrote:
Seaside wrote:
Hi Dave,
How about the customer that rings the day after their vehicle left the workshop saying "since you worked on the car?".
Often you say to your self that we cannot be responsible for that! But until you get the car back in and check, you cannot be sure.
These vehicles often need to come back ASAP to keep the owner happy and throw a great day into chaos.
Perhaps we should add this to the chart.
Good idea, one we had not thought of. After I get a few ideas I will up date the chart.
Our tendency is to assume that the problem is not the shops fault. I find it better to assume a neutral position until the vehicle comes back in and is looked at. How can we minimize the chances of 'Everett Sinceyou' causing vehicles to come back?
Hi Dave,
I tend to do the same, but I also find myself with an overwhelming need to squeeze them into the schedule somehow. Once the vehicle arrives and we find it is not a warranty issue, there is an expectation to repair the vehicle ASAP.
Do you assume it to be not a warranty issue and therefore schedule them as any other customer? Or do you invite them back to inspect and then book them normally after it is found not to be a warranty issue?
Some retesting can take some time to determine if it is a warranty issue or not.
This does not happen in my shop all that often, but always puts me in a poor mood when it does.
I have tried putting the owner into a loan vehicle until we can diagnose the fault as a warranty or not, but it usually turns out not to be a warranty issue and therefore caused unnecessary expense to the business.
The alternative is to squeeze them in upsetting the production for the day and irritating the technician. Or upset the customer by not looking at the vehicle right away.
Does anyone have another way of handling this?
_________________ David Vidler
Owner/ Manager - Seaside Automotive
South Australia
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject:
Seaside wrote:
I tend to do the same, but I also find myself with an overwhelming need to squeeze them into the schedule somehow. Once the vehicle arrives and we find it is not a warranty issue, there is an expectation to repair the vehicle ASAP.
Do you assume it to be not a warranty issue and therefore schedule them as any other customer? Or do you invite them back to inspect and then book them normally after it is found not to be a warranty issue?
Some retesting can take some time to determine if it is a warranty issue or not.
This does not happen in my shop all that often, but always puts me in a poor mood when it does.
I have tried putting the owner into a loan vehicle until we can diagnose the fault as a warranty or not, but it usually turns out not to be a warranty issue and therefore caused unnecessary expense to the business.
The alternative is to squeeze them in upsetting the production for the day and irritating the technician. Or upset the customer by not looking at the vehicle right away.
Does anyone have another way of handling this?
Hi David,
I agree it is always best to take them right in. Most of the time, it can be determined very quickly whether or not it is a warranty issue. If it is, I feel it is best to solve it, immediately. Time has to be allowed in scheduling and this time is padding and as such waste. It is non-value added, because it exist to cover other things that sometimes go wrong.
The best way I have found to deal with it is work on the source, preventing as many things going wrong as possible. This will minimize the loss, if not eliminate it.
If it is not a warranty issue, I find most people fairly understanding about rescheduling or leaving the vehicle until it can be worked in. In my experience a schedule cannot be made that is 100%. I think it can be made vastly better. I will post other thoughts later.
Joined: 20 May 2007 Posts: 20 Location: South Australia
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject:
louis wrote:
Dave wrote:
Our tendency is to assume that the problem is not the shops fault. I find it better to assume a neutral position until the vehicle comes back in and is looked at. How can we minimize the chances of 'Everett Sinceyou' causing vehicles to come back?
Hi Dave,
A little off the topic, but here's a crazy twist [not too unusual for me? ] "Ever since you" is a very normal human reaction. The mind is a comparison device and change is what gets its attention. When it see change, it looks to make logic of it (cause and effect.)
Rather than fight this, why not invite it? Over ninety-percent of the time it's a new problem and we get paid to fix it. I try to encourage it. A long no-hassle warranty and several ways for people to reach me, even at night, holidays and weekends. It makes me a lot of money and makes people feel good about our service.
Hi Louis,
I do invite the customer to ring me (although I do not have after hours contact at this time.) But I have been unable to find a satisfactory solution to scheduling them in a timely matter, as explained in my response to Dave above.
_________________ David Vidler
Owner/ Manager - Seaside Automotive
South Australia
Joined: 20 May 2007 Posts: 20 Location: South Australia
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject:
louis wrote:
Time has to be allowed in scheduling and this time is padding and as such waste. It is non-value added, because it exist to cover other things that sometimes go wrong.
.
Hi Louis,
I do not understand what you are trying to say here?
What do you mean by "padding"?
_________________ David Vidler
Owner/ Manager - Seaside Automotive
South Australia
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject:
louis wrote:
A little off the topic, but here's a crazy twist [not too unusual for me? ] "Ever since you" is a very normal human reaction. The mind is a comparison device and change is what gets its attention. When it see change, it looks to make logic of it (cause and effect.)
I have found that most of the time when people use the term “ever since you” it is in reference to a point in time. Generally they do not mean we did something incorrectly, rather they just noticed the issue after we worked on their vehicle.
One way we have minimized the negative calls is to explain what the client may expect as a result of the repairs just performed. An example might be repairing what caused the Check Engine Light to come on, then explain what monitors are to the client. Let them know that if one of the self tests fails the computer does not run the rest. Now that we repaired your vehicle the computer is able to run more self tests. If it finds something else wrong it may turn the Check Engine Light back on. It can take up to two weeks for all the tests to run. If the CEL comes back on, do not panic, give us a call so we can check it out. This way if the CEL comes on they are almost expecting it to and do not get upset.
louis wrote:
Rather than fight this, why not invite it? Over ninety-percent of the time it's a new problem and we get paid to fix it. I try to encourage it. A long no-hassle warranty and several ways for people to reach me, even at night, holidays and weekends. It makes me a lot of money and makes people feel good about our service.
Not such a crazy idea at all. It is just a mind set. Rather than the customer against the shop, It is the shop and client against the car.
I have my cell phone number on the answering machine. I am surprised how little it gets used.
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject:
Seaside wrote:
Hi Dave,
I tend to do the same, but I also find myself with an overwhelming need to squeeze them into the schedule somehow. Once the vehicle arrives and we find it is not a warranty issue, there is an expectation to repair the vehicle ASAP.
Do you assume it to be not a warranty issue and therefore schedule them as any other customer? Or do you invite them back to inspect and then book them normally after it is found not to be a warranty issue?
Some retesting can take some time to determine if it is a warranty issue or not.
This does not happen in my shop all that often, but always puts me in a poor mood when it does.
I have tried putting the owner into a loan vehicle until we can diagnose the fault as a warranty or not, but it usually turns out not to be a warranty issue and therefore caused unnecessary expense to the business.
The alternative is to squeeze them in upsetting the production for the day and irritating the technician. Or upset the customer by not looking at the vehicle right away.
Does anyone have another way of handling this?
David,
I understand where you are coming from.
I talk to the client and try to get a sense of what the issue is and how urgently they feel the problem needs to be looked at. If the vehicle is safe to run, the problem is not damaging any thing and the client is not in a hurry we schedule the vehicle in normally. On the other hand, if there is any question we get the vehicle in ASAP. Again, depending on the client, we try to look at it the same day, but it may be later. Once a determination is made as to whether the issue is warranty or not, it is time to call the client and discuss options.
I have found most people to be reasonable. They understand what mistakes are and are willing to work with us if we admit we made a mistake. The key is communication. I try to ask the client how they want the issue resolved. They are usually more lenient than I would be.
These situations do mess up the schedule. We try to schedule about 70% of the available hours. The rest is pretty easy to fill with up-sells and people dropping off vehicles early. So, we usually have some flex time to work with. Louis is much more accurate with his scheduling and does not have dead spots built in.
I look at prompt resolution of these situations as good marketing. The mark of a great company is not how they treat you when things are going well, but how they treat you when mistakes are made.
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject:
Seaside wrote:
louis wrote:
Time has to be allowed in scheduling and this time is padding and as such waste. It is non-value added, because it exist to cover other things that sometimes go wrong.
.
Hi Louis,
I do not understand what you are trying to say here?
What do you mean by "padding"?
Hi David,
Padding is extra time allowed on the schedule so that when things like a comeback occur, they can be accommodated. Anything less than selling 100% of available time might be seen as padding.
This is non-value added as it adds cost, but no benefit other than reacting to another situation [that might have been prevented.] For instance, if things never went wrong, 100% of available time could be sold. Since things do go wrong, we sell a percentage of available time and reserve what's left to cover problems. This may not be consciously done, but it's in there. Basically it takes X hours to get the work done.
The more unexpected things we can remove [upstream improvement] the less padding is needed and the more time can be sold [without chaotic results.] As we reduce variation profit will rise and complexity will be greatly reduced. The situation is this is another of those problems that is difficult [impossible] to treat directly. Rather we treat the causes, reduce variation and the problem is greatly reduced or eliminated. Thanks David, great question!!
Joined: 20 May 2007 Posts: 20 Location: South Australia
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject:
louis wrote:
Seaside wrote:
louis wrote:
Time has to be allowed in scheduling and this time is padding and as such waste. It is non-value added, because it exist to cover other things that sometimes go wrong.
.
Hi Louis,
I do not understand what you are trying to say here?
What do you mean by "padding"?
Hi David,
Padding is extra time allowed on the schedule so that when things like a comeback occur, they can be accommodated. Anything less than selling 100% of available time might be seen as padding.
This is non-value added as it adds cost, but no benefit other than reacting to another situation [that might have been prevented.] For instance, if things never went wrong, 100% of available time could be sold. Since things do go wrong, we sell a percentage of available time and reserve what's left to cover problems. This may not be consciously done, but it's in there. Basically it takes X hours to get the work done.
The more unexpected things we can remove [upstream improvement] the less padding is needed and the more time can be sold [without chaotic results.] As we reduce variation profit will rise and complexity will be greatly reduced. The situation is this is another of those problems that is difficult [impossible] to treat directly. Rather we treat the causes, reduce variation and the problem is greatly reduced or eliminated. Thanks David, great question!!
Hi Louis,
Thanks for explaining. Lets say that from today I will address every problem that arises. I make a list of anything that keeps the day from running smoothly.
I could do this for a few weeks to see which of the problems occur the most and start an action plan to prevent these from occurring.
It will take some time to research each item on the list.
Do you have any tips you could give those of us just starting out, how to keep track of the other problems we cannot yet find time to work on. Also did you find it best to work on one problem at a time or several?
_________________ David Vidler
Owner/ Manager - Seaside Automotive
South Australia
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject:
Seaside wrote:
Hi Louis,
Thanks for explaining. Lets say that from today I will address every problem that arises. I make a list of anything that keeps the day from running smoothly.
I could do this for a few weeks to see which of the problems occur the most and start an action plan to prevent these from occurring.
It will take some time to research each item on the list.
I find a quicker way is to start as Dave has done. With a fishbone diagram, list as many contributing factors as possible for the problem. I also like to get my staff involved in this. Not only do they have valuable insight, it gives them experience in problem solving.
Rather than address individual problems I look for categories of problems. I think Dave's diagram is excellent, you might see how many of these problems you share and add others as you go.
The section on PDSA describes a great method to try solutions. Using SPC you can easily track results.
I hope Dave and you will share your progress and I will be glad to work with you on this.
Seaside wrote:
Do you have any tips you could give those of us just starting out, how to keep track of the other problems we cannot yet find time to work on.
I believe you have to make time. This is mainly a matter of setting priorities. When I began, I committed to work two hours a night, for a month. This is the time I used to spend watching TV. That was twenty years ago and I have never gone back to TV. I find this is far more relaxing.
Seaside wrote:
Also did you find it best to work on one problem at a time or several?
I like to work on several, but I don't think it matters. Important to me, was to write down my objectives, so I would not forget. I may work on one thing till completion. Other things I stop and work at something else and then come back. I always have my objectives posted, where I can see them everyday.
This should never be drudgery. On the contrary it can be a great deal of fun. Also be CERTAIN to include a good deal of mandatory recreation. Some of my best ideas come while at Disney, hiking through the woods or lounging on the deck of a cruise ship.
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] "Ever since you" is a very normal human reaction. The mind is a comparison device and change is what gets its attention. When it see change, it looks to make logic of it (cause and effect.)
