Joined: 17 May 2007 Posts: 38 Location: New Iberia, La.70560
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject:
Hi Louis,
Louis wrote
Quote:
I am interested in any advantages and disadvantages to offering diesel service. Does your shop service:
Gasoline vehicles
Diesel vehicles
Both Gasoline and Diesel
And please explain why?
These are some quick thoughts although the list is far from complete. I must also state that this is base on observations with limited experience. We have not done Diesel repair long.
Advantages
1-There are many systems on Diesel vehicles that require repair with no further tooling and knowledge.
2-Some of the same customers have both types of vehicles.
3-Diesel owners tend to keep and repair vehicles longer.
4-Some of the same tools will work on both types of vehicles.
5-Diesel service commands a higher labor rate.
6-Scan tools are normally compatible within the same MFG with some additional adapters.
7-There is less competition for diesel work (IMH) although there are fewer vehicles.
Disadvantages
1-The future of Diesel truck repair is filled with uncertainty. Some of the newer model Fords and Chevys are reportedly difficult to repair. There are many negative stories concerning Ford trucks with the 6.0L and the 6.4L, and just as many concerning the Duramax Diesels. After attending training on these trucks I believe repairs on these vehicle will cost more and take longer to preform than repairs on older model diesels.
2-Outside of the systems common to most automobiles, Diesel automobiles are primarily MFG's that you may not Repair.
3-Diesel service would require a tech to have different knowledge and skills.
4-Diesel trucks are normally heavier and require lifts with higher capacities. In general everything on these vehicle are heavier.
5-Most Diesel diagnostic work require some special tooling
For instance, to preform a compression check we have 2 kits one to do diesels and one to do gasoline.
6-Diesel vehicles require different materials to service, like air filters, oil filters, and some of the oils and fluids.
7-In our shop I am the person that does both. It may not be as easy to find a Tech willing to do both.
8-A Large percentage of these trucks are work trucks and clients don't down them easily.
First because I dont like to send a customer to another repair shop for anything.
Second our area is mainly farming and fleet with diesel trucks so if you want their personal cars you have to take the trucks.
_________________ Jason Clark owner/tech
Clarks Automotive
Wellington Ontario
Canada
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 146 Location: Garden City, KS
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject:
The shop I worked for serviced both. Every shop I have ever worked for has serviced both. The reality is, diesel will come to dominate the market. It already does overseas, namely Europe, it is just a matter of time before it does here. A high percentage of pickups being sold are diesel. Toyota will be coming out with a diesel, to me this seals the deal.
From a tooling stand point, let's be really honest. The cost of tooling is going up, period. Regardless of what you are working on, most manufacturers are releasing new diagnostic tools. Most of them use the same diagnostic tool to diagnose diesels with as is used on their gasoline vehicles. There are a few other tools that are required, but I feel these don't add up enough to deter a shop from acquiring them.
From a techs stand point, the difference between gasoline and diesel is marginal. In some cases, diesels are easier to diagnose. Think about it, no ignition system. There are a few theories to learn and grasp (common rail injection systems, pilot injection, etc), but they are not so difficult that an eager tech couldn't learn them.
Just like hybrids, there a shops that refuse to work on "oil burners", this makes it a market with less competition. Just like hybrids, there will be call for their service. Not only the diesel engine, but the rest of the vehicle. It is not uncommon for these vehicles to have 200k+ miles on them. That's a lot of maintenance service, brakes, tires, and many other services available to you. Think about it: will a client still be willing to bring you their non-diesel system issues, but than have to take it somewhere else when they have drive ability issues? What if the "other" shop performs complete repairs? What's to keep them from just taking everything there? Just a thought. Later, Matt.
_________________ Matt Fanslow
ASE CMAT/L1
Crag-Technologies, Inc
www.wavehook.com
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject:
Hi Louis,
We work on gasoline, propane and diesel powered cars, light, medium, and heavy duty trucks. We do very little work on imported diesels. Most of the cars are gas powered. For purposes of this discussion I assuming that you are wanting information only on domestic light duty diesel powered vehicles.
Why do you not work on diesel powered vehicles? Are you missing out on service work just because the vehicle has a different power plant? Except for the fuel system and engines, Diesels are virtually the same as a gas powered vehicle.
Diesel and gas engines have several of the same sensors. They have a cam sensor, a TPS, a MAP sensor, coolant temp sensor, intake air sensor. Most diesel are a basic 4 stroke engine with a different fuel and ignition system. They are not that much different and nothing to be afraid of. Your existing scan tools will work on them.
The light duty diesels we see are mostly Dodge and Ford pickups. Over half of them are four wheel drive. The people that buy a diesel generally have disposable income and want to maintain their vehicle. They are willing to do preventative maintenance. We see the highest average gross profit per repair order on light duty diesels.
The light duty diesel market is mostly untapped. Neither the heavy duty or gasoline guys want to work on them. I have found that it is easier to take a gas guy and teach him to work on diesels than it is to teach a diesel guy to work on gas vehicles.
On the minus side - it is another type of system to learn. They will require some different tooling. They take a different spec oil, but one spec will cover most diesels. They take coolant additive to keep the nitrates up. Unless you get into MD & HD, the coolants you stock now will work. You will have to stock some different oil, air and fuel filters, but not many.
The older ones were noisy, smelly and dirty. But the new ones are quieter, the smell is less, and if you wear gloves, the dirt is on the glove.
Personally, I prefer to work on diesels. The engine compartments are not as crowded, the systems are simpler. The computerized ones have more diagnostic codes. I like the type of people that drive diesels. But the biggest reason is, other people do not want to work on them. As a shop we are trying to make our own fish pond, rather than fish in the same pond as everyone else.
Good luck on your decision,
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Coldwater, Ohio
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:38 am Post subject:
Like everyone else, we work on both. Most of our diesel work though runs to the Powerstroke and Duramax light duty stuff. I'm not even interested in the HD stuff. As was mentioned, the old diesel guys don't want to mess with the electronic controls. There is a learning curve, but it's there on everything. There are some fairly salty tools needed, but that's there on everything also. I would disagree with Dave about the room under the hood though, look at a powerstroke in a E350 van sometime. Most of our customers that we work on them for use them for business...the question is not how much, the question is how soon .
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Diesel, Gasoline or Both?
louis wrote:
I am interested in any advantages and disadvantages to offering diesel service. Does your shop service:
Gasoline vehicles
Diesel vehicles
Both Gasoline and Diesel
And please explain why?
Thanks
A great thanks to all that replied. We have never serviced diesels in the past, but I have long seen it as a field of great interest. What I envision is a totally new division, specializing in Cummings, Powerstroke and Duramax.
I was fortunate enough to be able to hire a young man that is already well trained and ready to go. For now I intend to set up two dedicated bays, later a separate addition to the building. You have given me a number of things to consider that will help me a great deal.
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Coldwater, Ohio
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:38 am Post subject:
OK, great idea. This young fellow is going to want to hit the ground running I'd imagine. How are you going to promote this? If you don't already have a fairly strong diesel presence, you need to get them in the door. Word of mouth is good, but slow. A mailer and an opt in list from Polk toward diesel owners? Are you going to chip them...so many of the diesel enthusiasts seem to look for performance enhancements, but do you do them, or just stay factory? I've got the same opportunity here (you didn't hire my guy did you???), and have been trying to figure out how to market it. Let me know how it works for you, and I'll just sort of sail along, lettin' you make the mistakes, and it'll be easier for me
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject:
Hi Bill,
bbraun wrote:
OK, great idea. This young fellow is going to want to hit the ground running I'd imagine. How are you going to promote this?
I started promoting it two years ago, when I first conceived the idea. I began announcing it as a "coming soon" on my radio show. We also produced flyers and put them in the waiting area. I began noting how many clients we already had with diesel trucks and letting them know, soon we would be able to service the diesel portion of the vehicle also. That was phase one.
bbraun wrote:
If you don't already have a fairly strong diesel presence, you need to get them in the door. Word of mouth is good, but slow. A mailer and an opt in list from Polk toward diesel owners?
Ten years ago we only did frame/alignment and suspension work. When I decided to go full service, it was not difficult. I already had a large client base that trusted and came to me for the things I did. I simply started adding one additional thing at a time. Promoting each as we added it.
People who were very pleased with our other service were thrilled to be able to get more things done in one place. The biggest trick was finding the right personnel. Honda has a great reputation for building small motors and many loyal clients. Branching into lawn equipment was no challenge.
bbraun wrote:
Are you going to chip them...so many of the diesel enthusiasts seem to look for performance enhancements, but do you do them, or just stay factory?
My tact has always been to stay factory, I will likely continue that trend.
bbraun wrote:
I've got the same opportunity here (you didn't hire my guy did you???),
If you snooze you loose
bbraun wrote:
and have been trying to figure out how to market it. Let me know how it works for you, and I'll just sort of sail along, lettin' you make the mistakes, and it'll be easier for me
An average man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. I think it will go very much the same as when I added automatic transmission service. When the best transmission man in town retired, I bought his equipment and hired his son. Promoting it was not a major issue.
Phase two will be a campaign called AGCO-d, the d meaning diesel. I plan to roll it out as a new division with a bunch of fan fare, but not right away. For now we are doing one or two jobs a day. JC is also cross trained to do other work. I hope to have him work with my other guys to train them to also fill in with diesel.
When everything is in place I will launch the new campaign using radio. We will also amend our current Auto Awareness classes to include a diesel owners workshop. The website will also be amended to publicize the service and we may also add a dedicated diesel newsletter in the future.
I prefer not to go too fast, I already have a pretty full plate. Later plans are to begin marketing nearby cities [100 mile radius] but I have to increase my client service staff first. I plan about two years for the full transition.
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 16 Location: Coldwater, Ohio
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:05 am Post subject:
You said "a wise man learns from the mistakes of others" I'd amend that to --a wise man learns from the good ideas of others. Well thought out plan of attack, thanks!
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:37 am Post subject:
Hi Bill,
Thanks. I have used the approach several times with other expansions. It's sort of like the gold at the end of the rainbow. The work comes up front and the rewards down the road.
At times it seems I may split hairs and nit-pick the details to death. This is in an effort to build a quality base [brand.] I think once a brand that represents true quality and value is established, it can be replicated over and again.
If people get great alignment service from a shop and the shop establishes itself as a problem solver, it's easy to understand they will do quality driveability or air conditioning or transmission or diesel or . . .
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There are a few theories to learn and grasp (common rail injection systems, pilot injection, etc), but they are not so difficult that an eager tech couldn't learn them.
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