Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: A Shop's Service Radius
I was once told that advertising outside of a 1.5 mile radius of a shop would be a waste. The theory is, most clients come from this radius and very few will travel further to have a vehicle repaired.
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: A Shop's Service Radius
Disagree. I think that population density will factor into this. We are located in a small industrial area between to towns. There are less than 100 people in a 1.5 mile radius of the shop. The majority of our clients travel between 8 and 15 miles to see us.
Convenience is a major factor for most people. It it is not convenient than there must be other factors to out weigh the inconvenience. Some of these may be trust, great service or problems fixed correctly the first time. Maybe the shop has a specialty, so the consumer has limited choices of where to go.
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
I agree with Dave,the population is a huge factor in the 1.5 radius.We can wrap up the locals for everyday service but it takes the specialty service to bring in customers 5 plus miles away.Usually the shops in the customers 1.5 mile radius dont have or poorly perform the specialty services.Once we get them in we try to make the transaction as easy as possible.We use different advertising in different papers depending on where they get distributed.
_________________ Jason Clark owner/tech
Clarks Automotive
Wellington Ontario
Canada
Remind me to write a post someday about mailing your advertising to postal carrier routes. For instance, the route my home carrier runs delivers to 500 homes and 100 businesses.
Most of the advertising he delivers to my home is from businesses within my own carrier route, or from those adjacent.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 146 Location: Garden City, KS
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:51 am Post subject:
Quote:
I was once told that advertising outside of a 1.5 mile radius of a shop would be a waste. The theory is, most clients come from this radius and very few will travel further to have a vehicle repaired.
Do you agree or disagree?
I agree that for the most part clients won't generally travel any further than they have to. But that's not the entire story. The reality is that they will travel, with in reason, as far as they need to to get an acceptable value for their travel and $$$. So, if your shop is very well regarded about wheel alignments, clients may travel an hour to have you align their vehicle...unless they find they can get an acceptable alignment for less travel and/or $$$. Two shops I worked for regularly had people drive an hour for us to figure out what was wrong with their vehicles. We had a good reputation, even with other shops miles and miles away. But, that also has little to do with advertising in itself. My arguement would be that if you can quickly convey that value to persons outside your "radius" then there is no reason not to advertise.
Quote:
What radius does your shop serve?
The last shop I worked in easily had a radius of 30 miles. Granted, it was near a rural area.
Quote:
What things might effect this?
As others have eluded to: population, population density, "area", reputation, competition to a certain extent.
Later, Matt.
[/quote]
_________________ Matt Fanslow
ASE CMAT/L1
Crag-Technologies, Inc
www.wavehook.com
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: A Shop's Service Radius
Hi Dave,
Dave wrote:
Disagree. I think that population density will factor into this. We are located in a small industrial area between to towns. There are less than 100 people in a 1.5 mile radius of the shop. The majority of our clients travel between 8 and 15 miles to see us.
Convenience is a major factor for most people. It it is not convenient than there must be other factors to out weigh the inconvenience. Some of these may be trust, great service or problems fixed correctly the first time. Maybe the shop has a specialty, so the consumer has limited choices of where to go.
Very good points! I had really not considered a service radius before I recently heard this concept. I think convenience is a relative term. For one person it may mean getting it done here and now. To another it may meaning having it fixed right the first time.
As you mention, the quality of service delivered to the proper market has more to do with it than a geographical area. For instance, I would not drive three-blocks to go to a Mc Donald's but routinely drive across town and wait a week for reservations at my favorite restaurant. Thanks Dave, I appreciate your thoughts.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject:
Hi Jason,
Jason wrote:
I agree with Dave,the population is a huge factor in the 1.5 radius.We can wrap up the locals for everyday service but it takes the specialty service to bring in customers 5 plus miles away.Usually the shops in the customers 1.5 mile radius dont have or poorly perform the specialty services.Once we get them in we try to make the transaction as easy as possible.We use different advertising in different papers depending on where they get distributed.
You make an excellent point. If several circles of increasing mile radius were drawn around a shop, each circle might have a service that could be advertised?
I don't think advertising an oil change fifty miles from the shop would be very effective. On the other hand, we routinely pull clients from a 500 mile radius with our frame and alignment business.
That's a great twist on the concept, I would like to hear more. Thanks Jason.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject:
Hi Bud,
Bud wrote:
Remind me to write a post someday about mailing your advertising to postal carrier routes. For instance, the route my home carrier runs delivers to 500 homes and 100 businesses.
Most of the advertising he delivers to my home is from businesses within my own carrier route, or from those adjacent.
Your exactly right.Our local paper we only advertise general service items and detailing.This customer base makes note of our special services when they are in for routine service. Then another paper that is more widely distributed (in dealership radius) we advertise alignments,A/C,custom pipe bending, ads recommending second opinions on estimates,and price comparing ect. Anything beyond that is usually just for automotive accessories.Usually these are one time customers with a few exceptions.
_________________ Jason Clark owner/tech
Clarks Automotive
Wellington Ontario
Canada
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:49 am Post subject:
Hi Matt.
MattFMN wrote:
Quote:
I was once told that advertising outside of a 1.5 mile radius of a shop would be a waste. The theory is, most clients come from this radius and very few will travel further to have a vehicle repaired.
Do you agree or disagree?
I agree that for the most part clients won't generally travel any further than they have to. But that's not the entire story. The reality is that they will travel, with in reason, as far as they need to to get an acceptable value for their travel and $$$. So, if your shop is very well regarded about wheel alignments, clients may travel an hour to have you align their vehicle...unless they find they can get an acceptable alignment for less travel and/or $$$. Two shops I worked for regularly had people drive an hour for us to figure out what was wrong with their vehicles. We had a good reputation, even with other shops miles and miles away. But, that also has little to do with advertising in itself. My arguement would be that if you can quickly convey that value to persons outside your "radius" then there is no reason not to advertise.
Quote:
What radius does your shop serve?
The last shop I worked in easily had a radius of 30 miles. Granted, it was near a rural area.
Quote:
What things might effect this?
As others have eluded to: population, population density, "area", reputation, competition to a certain extent.
Later, Matt.
Thanks Matt, as you state, many factors can influence a service radius. While it might be ineffective to advertise oil changes 50 miles from the shop, perhaps a very effective diagnostic service would be quite appropriate. Specialty services might even be far further. I really like the approach Jason suggest, gearing the message [service] to the radius. Shops might be able to expand their effective radius much further than they imagine.
You make another good point in that people coming in for the specialty, often buy other things. Certainly it is more convenient to get it done while there. People frequently travel from Atlanta and Dallas to have us address frame problems. Very often they also buy tires, brakes and everything else while here. A few even consider us "their regular shop" despite the distance. We keep in touch by our website and email. They drive in and have their work done and make a mini-vacation out of it.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject:
Jason wrote:
Hi Louis
Your exactly right.Our local paper we only advertise general service items and detailing.This customer base makes note of our special services when they are in for routine service. Then another paper that is more widely distributed (in dealership radius) we advertise alignments,A/C,custom pipe bending, ads recommending second opinions on estimates,and price comparing ect. Anything beyond that is usually just for automotive accessories.Usually these are one time customers with a few exceptions.
Hi Jason,
That's a very neat approach. A lot of shops that are not doing as much business as they would like could take a lesson here. There are a multitude of ways to increase sales, if the business will just try. Offering something unique, or a unique twist on something that exist, combined with letting folks know has built many a fortune. Thanks Jason, I appreciate you ideas.
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 21 Location: Lathrop MO
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject:
Hi Louis,
I think assuming an urban or suburban area a 1-3 mile radius is probably a fair enough assesment. Chain resturnants like McDonalds can be a decent example I think. For example in a suburban town just south of where I live there are 3 McDonalds resturants. This isn't an especially big town either, when measured in miles. Each one is thriving and I seriously doubt any of them were hurt when a new one was built. But of course they sell hamburgers. In the automotive world I think the same principle holds true enough, if you were to try to reach people that live out of this area you either better have something on the menu besides a hamburger or you had better make the best hamburger they ever had.
A twist to this subject could be; Early on for McDonalds they believed they were selling hamburgers, however when they studied why people liked their resturants they found it wasn't about the hamburger. It was about the consistencey and convienence. If you went to McDonalds you knew what to expect and it would hold true regardless of which one you visited, it was safe. It was also convienent, not only in regards to nearby but also they were quick, it doesn't take very long to get your hamburger from them.....This is what they sell. They discovered it's not so much about the hamburger for them.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject:
Hi Jeff,
Jeff S wrote:
Hi Louis,
I think assuming an urban or suburban area a 1-3 mile radius is probably a fair enough assesment. Chain resturnants like McDonalds can be a decent example I think. For example in a suburban town just south of where I live there are 3 McDonalds resturants. This isn't an especially big town either, when measured in miles. Each one is thriving and I seriously doubt any of them were hurt when a new one was built. But of course they sell hamburgers. In the automotive world I think the same principle holds true enough, if you were to try to reach people that live out of this area you either better have something on the menu besides a hamburger or you had better make the best hamburger they ever had.
Either might work, or you could market to an area that had insufficient/no or even really crappy hamburgers. We very successfully market certain services in a 500 mile radius, others in a 50 mile radius of the shop. Will I get everyone in Atlanta to drive to Baton Rouge for frame repair? Of course not. Will I get enough to pay for the marketing and show a tidy profit, absolutely! The same with Dallas and Houston.
Our radio marketing reaches a fifty-mile radius and we serve a high percentage of folks from this area. Again, do I serve them all? No, but we do serve many that we would not if we did not broadcast to them.
An added advantage is placing a location in these areas at a later date. I already have an awareness in the area and should be able to hit the ground running.
I think a McDonald's franchise is different, as most people eat three meals a day, whether they are five or 85 years old. A three mile radius represents more market than they might ever serve. Still they do market Nation wide.
Jeff S wrote:
A twist to this subject could be; Early on for McDonalds they believed they were selling hamburgers, however when they studied why people liked their resturants they found it wasn't about the hamburger. It was about the consistencey and convienence. If you went to McDonalds you knew what to expect and it would hold true regardless of which one you visited, it was safe. It was also convienent, not only in regards to nearby but also they were quick, it doesn't take very long to get your hamburger from them.....This is what they sell. They discovered it's not so much about the hamburger for them.
I have been told, their main interest is to sell franchises. The product is only a means to that end. Their income from printed material supplied to franchisees may exceed that from burgers?
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 21 Location: Lathrop MO
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:10 am Post subject:
louis wrote:
I think a McDonald's franchise is different, as most people eat three meals a day, whether they are five or 85 years old. A three mile radius represents more market than they might ever serve. Still they do market Nation wide.
Their differences are fairly obvious. It's their similarities that might be more frightful? Honestly I can't speak for how they are run now, but in the mid '80s like many teens I worked at one. It was by far the most fun job I ever had and at the same time I worked my butt off. The place was just amazing to me. I was probably a bit lucky because although the one I worked at was a franchise they followed the corporate rules/suggestions/recommendations to the letter. I must say, everything I observed was in a true Demming spirit also, all of it. The managers I had were great, all of them. Every single solitary thing done at that store was to a level of precision you would have to see and study for yourself to truly appreciate. PDSA was (is?) alive and well in Corporate McDonald's. On the store level there is a reason for every single thing they do and the store owner would be wise to follow Corporates recommendations. On the corporate level they are constantly looking for ways of improvement for even the smallest of details. Only after they have confidently found an improvement would it be changed on the store level. The managers did a great job of removing obstacles and providing an enjoyable and healthy work place. Virtually everybody I met while I worked there enjoyed it, was happy and had no problems with management. Sure occasionally somebody would come to work in a foul mood, or a chip on their shoulder, those kinds of problems were addressed immediately, if there was something a manager could do about it to help them they would, if not they might offer to let them take a break or send them home for the day. If somebody was a chronic problem and there was no way for it to be resolved they would no longer work there. Happy people was (is?) very very important to them. The training was just unbelievable. When a person first went to work there they would be assigned a task (or station). It varied on what you started at depending on your gender and what they needed. It was unlikely a manager would do the training also, another more seasoned crew member was likely to do it (they were training two people at once, one to cook a hamburger and the other to manage) The first day was an important one because whatever you were assigned to do you would be doing from that day on until you knew it in your sleep. Once you had mastered that job the cross training began and you would start moving around to other tasks. I don't believe hiring teenagers had anything to do with cheap labor. I believe if they thought (had found) a better result paying someone older more money they would have gladly done it. So what is it they found advantageous with a teenager? Could it have been teenagers are generally happier and have less obstacles for the managers to overcome? They found teenagers are more receptive to the job? Did you know they even know exactly how long a French fry can sit in the warmer before it begins to diminish in quality? (It was less then 10 minutes and after that time expired any remaining fries were to be trashed) This is true with every item they sell. They know exactly how long they can store a 1/4 pounder or Big Mac, Apple pie, etc. The store I worked at followed all the rules and it wouldn't get sold after the time expired. There was also very little waste, the trash can these items were put in wasn't very large and was designated for this. At the end of each shift it was inventoried. I had a friend that really liked ketchup, during our breaks they would allow us to have food, (not the waste, nobody ate it, ever) my friend would use the dispenser in the kitchen area to get his ketchup for his fries so he could get many packets worth easier. One day the manager asked him to stop this practice because they had noticed a problem with inventory. In the grand scheme of things his ketchup wasn't a lot considering how many hamburgers they made but it was enough to catch their attention! At that time I had already noticed the level of precision of the place but them noticing a problem with their ketchup inventory that small amazed me again. The place was kept impeccably clean and I never once saw an insect inside except for an occasional fly that would get in the door with a customer. The examples go on and on, I could write about this experience for hours and I doubt readers of this forum would appreciate this going any further. Suffice it to say your local McDonald's has a lot to see.
louis wrote:
I have been told, their main interest is to sell franchises. The product is only a means to that end. Their income from printed material supplied to franchisees may exceed that from burgers?
Maybe true enough, I would have to say if looking at it from that view their main interest is the same as yours.....To make an honest profit?
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject:
Hi Jeff,
Jeff S wrote:
louis wrote:
I think a McDonald's franchise is different, as most people eat three meals a day, whether they are five or 85 years old. A three mile radius represents more market than they might ever serve. Still they do market Nation wide.
Their differences are fairly obvious. It's their similarities that might be more frightful? Honestly I can't speak for how they are run now, but in the mid '80s like many teens I worked at one. It was by far the most fun job I ever had and at the same time I worked my butt off. The place was just amazing to me. I was probably a bit lucky because although the one I worked at was a franchise they followed the corporate rules/suggestions/recommendations to the letter. I must say, everything I observed was in a true Demming spirit also, all of it. The managers I had were great, all of them. Every single solitary thing done at that store was to a level of precision you would have to see and study for yourself to truly appreciate. PDSA was (is?) alive and well in Corporate McDonald's. On the store level there is a reason for every single thing they do and the store owner would be wise to follow Corporates recommendations. On the corporate level they are constantly looking for ways of improvement for even the smallest of details. Only after they have confidently found an improvement would it be changed on the store level. The managers did a great job of removing obstacles and providing an enjoyable and healthy work place. Virtually everybody I met while I worked there enjoyed it, was happy and had no problems with management. Sure occasionally somebody would come to work in a foul mood, or a chip on their shoulder, those kinds of problems were addressed immediately, if there was something a manager could do about it to help them they would, if not they might offer to let them take a break or send them home for the day. If somebody was a chronic problem and there was no way for it to be resolved they would no longer work there. Happy people was (is?) very very important to them. The training was just unbelievable. When a person first went to work there they would be assigned a task (or station). It varied on what you started at depending on your gender and what they needed. It was unlikely a manager would do the training also, another more seasoned crew member was likely to do it (they were training two people at once, one to cook a hamburger and the other to manage) The first day was an important one because whatever you were assigned to do you would be doing from that day on until you knew it in your sleep. Once you had mastered that job the cross training began and you would start moving around to other tasks. I don't believe hiring teenagers had anything to do with cheap labor. I believe if they thought (had found) a better result paying someone older more money they would have gladly done it. So what is it they found advantageous with a teenager? Could it have been teenagers are generally happier and have less obstacles for the managers to overcome? They found teenagers are more receptive to the job? Did you know they even know exactly how long a French fry can sit in the warmer before it begins to diminish in quality? (It was less then 10 minutes and after that time expired any remaining fries were to be trashed) This is true with every item they sell. They know exactly how long they can store a 1/4 pounder or Big Mac, Apple pie, etc. The store I worked at followed all the rules and it wouldn't get sold after the time expired. There was also very little waste, the trash can these items were put in wasn't very large and was designated for this. At the end of each shift it was inventoried. I had a friend that really liked ketchup, during our breaks they would allow us to have food, (not the waste, nobody ate it, ever) my friend would use the dispenser in the kitchen area to get his ketchup for his fries so he could get many packets worth easier. One day the manager asked him to stop this practice because they had noticed a problem with inventory. In the grand scheme of things his ketchup wasn't a lot considering how many hamburgers they made but it was enough to catch their attention! At that time I had already noticed the level of precision of the place but them noticing a problem with their ketchup inventory that small amazed me again. The place was kept impeccably clean and I never once saw an insect inside except for an occasional fly that would get in the door with a customer. The examples go on and on, I could write about this experience for hours and I doubt readers of this forum would appreciate this going any further. Suffice it to say your local McDonald's has a lot to see.
I would not question how well they are run, only that they have far more potential clients in a much smaller service radius than most auto repair shops. Not everyone in every household has a vehicle. Virtually everyone in every household does eat, most three times a day. Very few vehicles need service three times daily.
Jeff S wrote:
louis wrote:
I have been told, their main interest is to sell franchises. The product is only a means to that end. Their income from printed material supplied to franchisees may exceed that from burgers?
Maybe true enough, I would have to say if looking at it from that view their main interest is the same as yours.....To make an honest profit?
That might be the aim of a great many businesses, yet some market small areas other much larger areas. I believe, and the point of my post is, an automotive shop may enjoy a much larger service radius than is commonly accepted.
I also believe many businesses under-estimate the size of their potential market and under perform as a result. Not every person will drive 500 miles for every service. That said, many people will drive 500 miles for a service they feel meets their needs better than their other options.
Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 21 Location: Lathrop MO
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject:
louis wrote:
That might be the aim of a great many businesses, yet some market small areas other much larger areas. I believe, and the point of my post is, an automotive shop may enjoy a much larger service radius than is commonly accepted.
I also believe many businesses under-estimate the size of their potential market and under perform as a result. Not every person will drive 500 miles for every service. That said, many people will drive 500 miles for a service they feel meets their needs better than their other options.
Great!! Thanks, here's another example. Say an automotive shop wanted to sell tires and do it within a 25 mile (or even more) radius. Think it could be effectively and profitably done?
Great!! Thanks, here's another example. Say an automotive shop wanted to sell tires and do it within a 25 mile (or even more) radius. Think it could be effectively and profitably done?
That's a little puzzling. Most stores that sell tires only sell them on-site. How does the size or shape of its service radius matter? Most busy stores have competitors on their same block.
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject:
Hi Jeff,
Jeff S wrote:
louis wrote:
That might be the aim of a great many businesses, yet some market small areas other much larger areas. I believe, and the point of my post is, an automotive shop may enjoy a much larger service radius than is commonly accepted.
I also believe many businesses under-estimate the size of their potential market and under perform as a result. Not every person will drive 500 miles for every service. That said, many people will drive 500 miles for a service they feel meets their needs better than their other options.
Great!! Thanks, here's another example. Say an automotive shop wanted to sell tires and do it within a 25 mile (or even more) radius. Think it could be effectively and profitably done?
I don't see any reason why not. I don't think it could be done by marketing on price however. About twenty-percent of the tires we sell are outside of a 25-mile radius. Ironically, two of the sets I sold today were from clients that live in Gonzales, LA [about 30 miles.] They drove up in two vehicles, left one and did other shopping in the other. When the first vehicle was ready, they left the other and returned this evening to pick it up.
We advertise to and regularly serve about a fifty-mile radius around my shop. My future plans are to expand that to about 100 miles on our general services, to include New Orleans and Lafayette, LA. This will have to wait until I can increase my office staff however.
Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 206 Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject:
Jeff S wrote:
Hi Louis,
A twist to this subject could be; Early on for McDonald's they believed they were selling hamburgers, however when they studied why people liked their restaurants they found it wasn't about the hamburger. It was about the consistency and convenience. If you went to McDonald's you knew what to expect and it would hold true regardless of which one you visited, it was safe. It was also convenient, not only in regards to nearby but also they were quick, it doesn't take very long to get your hamburger from them.....This is what they sell. They discovered it's not so much about the hamburger for them.
There are parallels to what we do in this. I do not think that most people come to a particular shop for auto repair. They come for consistency and convenience. As others have stated, convenience can mean different things to different people.
People have a level of service that they expect. If we can meet or exceed that level we can turn them into clients. If we continue to exceed the level of service they expect, we can raise that level. Now the new, higher level becomes their norm. In my opinion the higher the level of service they expect, the less places there are that can meet it.
_________________ David Wittmayer
Owner / Manager
Hansen Enterprises Fleet Repair, LLC
Camp Verde, AZ
www.hefrshop.com
Joined: 15 May 2007 Posts: 774 Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject:
Hi Dave,
Dave wrote:
People have a level of service that they expect. If we can meet or exceed that level we can turn them into clients. If we continue to exceed the level of service they expect, we can raise that level. Now the new, higher level becomes their norm. In my opinion the higher the level of service they expect, the less places there are that can meet it.
Does this mean a business can effectively neutralize much of it's competition, create an almost virtual monopoly, as long as they continue to serve their clients extremely well and no one exceeds their level of improvement?
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Tomorrow will be okay 
here's another example. Say an automotive shop wanted to sell tires and do it within a 25 mile (or even more) radius. Think it could be effectively and profitably done?